I wonder what profit there is in this thread. I know Phi started talking about empathy for trinitarians, but should this be restricted to one belief? Shouldn't we express fellow feeling to all, regardless of religion?
To me, this thread has entered the realms of 1 Timothy 6:4, "debates about words". Paul encouraged the brothers to avoid arguments "which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith"
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Epignossis
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 151
Re:Understanding Trinitarians. - 2005/03/30 18:17assuming that the trinity is false, I can't help wondering, if this issue was as vitaly important to God as the WT makes it out to be, why the Bible contains so many obviously confusing statements regarding the identity of Jesus, such as those ...highlighted?
Hey Phi, I thought this comment was interesting and I think a very fair point. Thank you for bringing this out.
Like Imbrium mentioned at the beginning, I can't help but think that we are trying to understand something incredibly complex using very basic concepts of understanding. Sure we can be given analogies, allegories stories which give us some conceptual basis but we are trying to understand the nature the CREATOR of this entire universe.
As I have mentioned on some other threads I have been reading Paul Davie's "Superforce" which describes the attempt by physicists to explain the entire universe in one theory of the known forces. Bear in mind this is the state of the art physicist view.
There thinking indicates a number of mind numbing things - that the universe is made of "structured nothingness", particle behaviour at the quantum energy level (that is so tiny it compares to a speck v our solar system and less) can be influenced by our, yes "our" will and point of view, i.e. they do not necessarily follow mechancial laws but can "interact" with us and get this - there are 11 dimensions, yes 11. These are made of our known 3 dimensions plus time plus 7 hidden dimensions.
The thing with the dimensions is that we cannot conceptualize anything outside of our 4 known dimensions. It requires the abstractions of maths to establish the other 7.
Also it becomes clear when contemplating this superforce stuff that hard (concrete) things, materiality, mechanical laws and 3 dimensionality as concepts waft out into the ether when considering the whole.
So my point is that clearly we are not mathematicians and so cannot readily comprehend this stuff. We try to communicate these concepts in our 3 dimensional terms.
This mathematical perspective, however, certainly helps me to not lock down into dogmatic terms, less condemn people for thinking one way versus another. One thing that to me does not require mathematical proof. God is love! If a man is loving all the time and kind and displays all the qualities of a true Christian and sincerely believes that Jesus is God - well I would prefer to try and love him as my brother.
Much love to all
ePig
Post edited by: epignossis, at: 2005/03/30 18:20Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3
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polemotheos
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 530
Re:Understanding Trinitarians. - 2005/03/30 18:25amosfamily wrote: Hi Everyone
I wonder what profit there is in this thread. I know Phi started talking about empathy for trinitarians, but should this be restricted to one belief? Shouldn't we express fellow feeling to all, regardless of religion?
To me, this thread has entered the realms of 1 Timothy 6:4, "debates about words". Paul encouraged the brothers to avoid arguments "which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith" be at peace. notice that this forum describes and encourages research. So maybe the "open forum" would seem more welcoming to you. And by all means live the world you want to see. I look forward to seeing some thread that you make. Your Peace, Surrender, In You, YHVH Re-connect Co-operative
I wonder what profit there is in this thread. I know Phi started talking about empathy for trinitarians, but should this be restricted to one belief? Shouldn't we express fellow feeling to all, regardless of religion?
I agree. But we can only move one step at a time. A thread about loving everyone would have lacked focus. And its easy to say we love in such vague terms. It becomes more real, and more of a challenge, when we specifically attempt to love, especially if it is a group which we may have formerly despised. I'm sure we'll get round to including all others as you indicate, in time I hope so.
Much Philia.
Phi.
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Bea
User Gold Boarder
Posts: 41
Re:Understanding Trinitarians. - 2005/03/31 00:58Like Imbrium mentioned at the beginning, I can't help but think that we are trying to understand something incredibly complex using very basic concepts of understanding. Sure we can be given analogies, allegories stories which give us some conceptual basis but we are trying to understand the nature the CREATOR of this entire universe. This mathematical perspective, however, certainly helps me to not lock down into dogmatic terms, less condemn people for thinking one way versus another. One thing that to me does not require mathematical proof. God is love! If a man is loving all the time and kind and displays all the qualities of a true Christian and sincerely believes that Jesus is God - well I would prefer to try and love him as my brother. Does 'The Verse of the Day' have the answer? Talk about timely!
"And I pray that you, being rooted and established in LOVE, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the LOVE of Christ, and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge - that you may be filled with the measure of all the fullness of God." Ephesians 3: 17-19 NIV
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