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polemotheos
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 Re:2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 - 2005/07/13 15:25 ablebodiedman wrote:
polemotheos wrote:
How do you translate (Matthew 13:31,32)?
That wall sometimes causes people to think I am crazy or insane.
Read some of the posts I made on e-watchman for plenty of evidence of this.
If I know however, that people are going to think I am crazy, then who really is?
I have always found you to be an ablebodiedman. And I have enjoyed your spiritual insights. I am glad you investigate things that seem crazy. You remind me of someone I know.

I have never had reason to translate it and usually take for granted that bible translators have done an acceptable job.
Considering that you are advocating a translation no one has ever supported and coupled to your limited study of translation issues, I am sure you can understand the need for extraordinary support. For example Matthew 13:31,32; seems to have the same grammatical form as 2nd Thessalonians 2:9.

Your not aware of anomalies in one yet you argue for anomalies in another which uses the same Greek text grammar. So, either your grammatical arguments for your interpretation are hot air and/or your interpretation bias colors your opinion. Maybe you can explain the seeming inconsistency? Your Peace, Surrender, In You,
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ablebodiedman
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 Re:2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 - 2005/07/14 01:13 Your not aware of anomalies in one yet you argue for anomalies in another which uses the same Greek text grammar. So, either your grammatical arguments for your interpretation are hot air and/or your interpretation bias colors your opinion. Maybe you can explain the seeming inconsistency?


I found one anomolie in a bible translation and now you expect that I must then be immediately aware of them all!

I am going to have to disappoint you.

That already explains the seeming inconsistency.


I think my grammatical arguments are solid based on my knowledge of the English Language only. In my limited opinion finding the correct antecedent in the English language is not much different to doing the same in the Greek.

It is unfortunate that I do not have the knowledge to make the same argument in the Greek language.

I think the passage does not fit grammaticaly and also am absolutely convinced the passage does not fit the bibles theocracy.

Therefore my interpretation bias most definitely does colour my opinion based on what I already know about the bible.

The manifestation of Jesus Christs presence is according to the power and works of Satan.

Instead of being horrified at the thought read Matthew Chapter 24.

All those things in MT 24 that Jesus himself mentioned would indicate his presence and eventual coming must all be due to Satans works except for the preaching of the good news.

Then again considering that the evil slave is Satans puppet and there is plenty of evidence the evil slave is thriving, the preaching of the good news may also be indirectly attributed to the power of Satan.

Was Jesus himself speaking hot air or is what he said true?


I think that what Jesus Christ said was true and that in the letter to the Thessalonians Paul took for granted that the reader would also believe and so felt comfortable using a pronoun instead of properly indicating that it was Jesus Christs coming that would be manifested by Satans power and ability.

I think the support for this is already extraordinary.

The hot air should therefore be attributed to those who would take the liberty of replacing "whose coming" with "the man of lawlessness".


If some famous and renowned Greek translators are now offended then so be it.


If you want to elucidate your thoughts regarding Matthew 13:31-32 I would like to hear them.



Regards


ablebodiedman

Post edited by: ablebodiedman, at: 2005/07/14 01:25

Post edited by: ablebodiedman, at: 2005/07/14 06:50
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ablebodiedman
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 Re:2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 - 2005/07/15 03:25 I searched the Internet to see if I could find any rules for finding the antcedent and this is the only list of Guidelines I could find.

Please notice they are called guidelines not rules.


It seems that I did follow the recommended guidelines of this Greek enthusiast.


Guidelines for Selecting the Correct Antecedent


1. Usually the antecedent is obvious.

2. If the antecedent is not easily determined then...

a) List the possibilities.

b) Use common sense and ask yourself what makes the best sense.

c) Study the context carefully, especially the preceding verses.

d) Make sure your choice makes good sense theologically and doctrinally.

e) Follow the rule of simplicity. Pronouns are used not to confuse but to simplify. The writer used a pronoun because he assumed that you could figure out the antecedent!

f) The nearest antecedent is often but not always the correct one.


I found this list at the following link:


http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/egreek/egreek04.htm



Maybe Jim Wheeler could list the guideline/rules that he and his associates use?


I wonder why Jim Wheeler and his associates are making yet another translation of the bible?


Could it be they are not satisfied with the past efforts of some very famous and renowned Greek Translators?


After discovering this anomolie I understand why he might take on such a huge project.



Regards


ablebodiedman

Post edited by: ablebodiedman, at: 2005/07/15 03:41
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