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the apostle Paul is a pantheist - 2005/12/01 20:02 (Acts 17:28) "For by him we have life and move and exist, even as certain ones of the poets among YOU have said, ‘For we are also his progeny.’"

Please note that the apostle Paul here quotes and espouses the pantheistic doctrine of the Stoic philosophers;

(Epimenides' Cretica 'Cretan') "Thou livest and abidest forever, for in thee we live and move and have our being." Paul himself calls Epimenides a "prophet" (Titus 1:12).

(Cleanthes' Hymn to Zeus) "For we are Thy offspring, taking the image only of Thy voice, as many mortal things as live and move upon the earth."

(Aratus' Phænomena 'Natural Appearances') "For every street, every market-place is full of Zeus. Even the sea and the harbour are full of this deity. Everywhere everyone is indebted to Zeus. For we are indeed his offspring."

Consider Jeremiah, for he shares similar expressions as Aratus;

(Jeremiah 23:24) “Or can any man be concealed in places of concealment and I myself not see him?” is the utterance of Jehovah. “Is it not the heavens and the earth that I myself actually fill?” is the utterance of Jehovah.

Now that I have demonstrated that Monism is indeed biblical; here is a simple proof of it's reality.


Does God exist?

To answer this question it would be important to first define what we mean by the expression “God”;

Most people would agree that when we say “God” we mean “an eternal, all power-ful, omnipresent being”.

Now to answer whether or not such a being exists we must go beyond the simple definition we have here.

To prove that God exists we must examine evidence; (We should only believe what is proven to us)

Consider the material universe. It is generally held that the material universe (as we know it; with galaxies, stars and planetary systems) at one time did not exist.

Yet, the substance of what comprises the material universe (specifically energy) has been shown in experiments to be uncreatedable and indestructable. We have come to call this phenomenon the first Law of Physics; the law of conservation of energy.

Besides this, it logically follows that all things are made of something (once again, energy), and that nothing can be made from nothing. "Nothing" does not involve existence, it does not exist in reality. So what does exist, the substance of existence must necessarily be omnipresent. These observations also require that the substance of existence be uncreatable and indestructable.

The transformation of energy is power. All power involves the transformation of energy. Therefore energy is integrally all power-ful.

These facts alone make energy ubiquitous, eternal, and formable.

Now for there to exist an eternal, all powerful, omnipresent being such as God, either God is energy or God is co-eternal, co-all powerful, co-omnipresent with energy, which is absurd. Therefore God is energy and necessarily exists.

I think now Pauls words in Romans can become ever more clear to you. Here is a paraphrase;

'What may be known about God is manifest because God made it manifest. His invisible [qualities], even his eternal power and Godship, are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things developed.' (Romans 1:19-20)

Jehovah's eternal power and Godship is known and manifest to us by the physical realities we perceive.

peace and love,

Mars

Post edited by: polemotheos, at: 2005/12/03 14:54
Your Peace, Surrender, In You,
YHVH Re-connect Co-operative
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Re:the apostle Paul is a pantheist - 2005/12/03 10:36 Mars, pantheism tends to take the individual personality out of God. Do you believe God is a distinct person with intelligence and consciousness?
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Re:the apostle Paul is a pantheist - 2005/12/03 14:51 donbodo wrote:
(1) Mars, pantheism tends to take the individual personality out of God.

(2) Do you believe God is a distinct person with intelligence and consciousness?

(1) Some claim that. The only real arguement is that God has no body... This is what they mean when they say "pantheists don't believe God is a person".

(2) Yes!

All pantheism really is, is an arguement of an Immanent God. That is all!

Various pantheists have different understandings of what it means for God to be immanent. Each arguement should be considered seperatly, they are not mutually exclusive.

peace and love,

Mars
Your Peace, Surrender, In You,
YHVH Re-connect Co-operative
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Re:the apostle Paul is a pantheist - 2005/12/04 06:25 immanence (ĭm'ənəns) [Lat.,=dwelling in], in metaphysics, the presence within the natural world of a spiritual or cosmic principle, especially of the Deity. It is contrasted with transcendence. The immanence of God in the world is the basic feature of pantheism. Among the most important philosophies using the concept of immanence are Stoicism and the systems of Giordano Bruno and Spinoza. In general, the great monotheistic religions have held that God is both immanent and transcendent, although individual thinkers have tended to emphasize one or the other aspect. - Immanent Your Peace, Surrender, In You,
YHVH Re-connect Co-operative
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