I'd actually like to ask a few opinions on this one.
When I speak nof annointing, I speak of something I have. I have particular areas of annointing that God has given me and God expects me to use for Him. (As we all do) Most natural talents, I think, are from God. People either choose to use them for him, or not. Hence a wonderful, powerful writer can write wonderfully, powerfully for satan.
(God prevented me from publishing several novels when I was in my early twenties. It's only now I see how very sorry I would be had I printed them back then.)
All Christians have different annointings. But I am also sometimes aware of a different level of annointing in a room when we are worshiping. It is a tangible glory that settles over everything. (Does this make any sense?)
What is the actual WT definition of annointing? Can someone explain? I know you believe in 144000 spirit-annointed ones. Does this exclude anyone else from being annointed at all?
In the areas you are annointed, I also believe you carry God's authority to move in these areas. Hence teachers teach, not prophecy, evangelists evangelise, rather than pastor etc.
I would be a truly awful evangelist. I have no annointing in this area whatsoever. (Or patience for that matter)
Shalom Rav.
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Phi
Admin Admin
Posts: 278
Re:The annointed. - 2005/03/13 10:24Hi Warrior. Good question.
When JWs speak of the anointed they mean all who are JWs who claim to be born again, those who will reign in heaven with Christ (They automatically dismiss the idea that anyone who is not a JW could possibly be anointed, or born again). So to a JW, anointed = born again. They believe that there will only be in total 144,000 such anointed/born again ones. Very few JW's claim to be born again now. Out of 6 million only about 8000 ofthem do. Because the JW's dismiss the idea of 'gifts' as such, they dont really think about the idea of some being granted special areas of spiritual expertise, so to speak, by the spirit.
Thats the story in short.
I dont agree with much of the above, however.
Philia.
Phi.
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/13 10:38
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Epignossis
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 151
Re:The annointed. - 2005/03/13 20:34Oh boy warrior this is an excellent question. There is so much in it and a lot that IMO has been confused in the JW teaching.
Yes as Phi has said JW belief is focused on the 144,000. JW's talk about "the anointed" and by this they typically mean those who have a heavenly hope versus an earthly hope. The teaching is that only the 144,000 are "anointed" and these go to heaven to be co-rulers with Christ. This is based partly on Rev 14:1 where the 144,000 are seen standing with the lamb on Mt Zion. Mt Zion is viewed as being in heaven.
I suspect however there is a lot still to understand outside of this view. I find interesting that in the typical view, Mt Zion on earth is where the city of David is located whereas Mt Moriah is where the temple, (the reflection of the heavenly arrangement) is located.
I know there are a few here (ex JWs) who focus on a spiritual Israel and one which is much larger than 144,000. They work off Rev 7 and note that first there are the 12 tribes (not exactly the same as the original) and then out of them 144,000 in total are sealed.
Now, whether that is the anointing you are talking about I cannot say. I do, however, agree with you about different anointing. For example I look back to Cyrus who conquered Babylon. He was not part of physical Israel but he certainly was "anointed" to carry out a specific work.
I especially liked your statement about a tangible glory settling over a group worhsipping. The thing I love about the spirit is that it will act toward whomsoever it pleases in whatsoever way it pleases. This was certainly true in the first century when Paul and Barnabas were "anointed" to go out on their preaching tours from Antioch.
At that time there were a group of older men in Jerusalem who had become a sort of Governing Body. They were the ones that made the decision about circumcision and abstaining from blood. Yet the spirit did not say to Paul, you had better go down to Jerusalem and check with the older men to see if it is ok to go out on your preaching tour.
The spirit just told them to head on out. I mention this because in the JW teaching there is this notion about everything going through a specific channel - the JW governing body and "faithful and discreet slave". This latter group now numberd 8600 or so are considered the remnant of the 144,000 on earth, the rest having already died off and gone to heaven.
The faithful and discreet slave are the ones who purportedly direct the spiritual feeding of God's organised people and include the governing body. These are called God's "visible organisation". In reality however, the spiritual feeding is carried out primarily by the governing body and a handful of writers in the "writing department". There is no mechanism, for example, for the other remnant to provide spiritual food. They are not consulted as a group before publications are sent out.
As Phi has mentioned the idea of miraculous gifts and gifts of the spirit as in the first century have been radically "detuned". A recent Watchtower article again reiterated that these gifts have ceased. Everything is channeled through the faithful and discreet slave and the "visible organisation". Nothing can happen outside that visible organisation and certainly not miracles. So if miracles do occur by this viewpoint, they would have to be from Satan!
As for me, I tend to think of anointing as spirit pouring out for a purpose. I think the purpose ultimately is to return us to the Oneness with God - in that state we can work with him and have the full power of him to work out his purposes. In this state of Oneness His purposes are our purposes and our purposes are His purposes. In the meantime the purpose can be connected to our desiring to be used. I believe if we prepare our hearts and minds to hand them over to the doing of God's will then the spirit can and will pour into us to do as God pleases with us both to our joy and His glory.
So Warrior, there is much more to this but I will stop there and let someone else have a go if they want to.
Much love and spirit
ePig Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3
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Victory
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Posts: 16
Re:The annointed. - 2005/03/14 12:35Hi Warrior and welcome
Great question you’ve raised here.
In the Gospels “anointed” seems to be applied exclusively to Jesus.
In the rest of the Greek Scriptures (NWT), where “anointed” and similar terms are applied to others, a definite pattern emerges.
See if you see what I see in the following Bible texts:
“But he who guarantees that YOU and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.”—2 Corinthians 1:21-22.
“And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge. I write YOU, not because YOU do not know the truth, but because YOU know it . . .”—1 John 2:20-21.
“And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things.”—1 John 2:27.
Now the thing that I see here is that anointing is linked to knowledge. Not just any kind of knowledge, rather a supernatural knowledge. A knowledge that transcends normal learning methods. A knowledge that is a result of a direct infusion of God’s Spirit.
Once we realise this, then we see a direct correlation between texts such as those found in Jeremiah 31; Hebrews 8, Hebrews 10, etc.
Those texts also talk about Jehovah implanting special knowledge directly in people’s hearts and minds. But instead of using “anointed” and such terms, these texts emphasise the New Covenant.
So we see that those who are “anointed” and those who are in the New Covenant are in fact one and the same people. Both have special knowledge. Both get that knowledge directly through God’s Spirit. And both “know the truth” in such a way that they don’t need others to teach them about it.
That doesn’t mean these ones are the sole repositories of all knowledge about things in the universe. Rather it appears that they have supernatural knowledge around specific spiritual truths. Knowledge that lies outside the realm of fleshly experience. (Romans 8:5)
Now the New Covenant, like any other covenant, is drawn up for a purpose. So it follows that the parties to the New Covenant, in this case the “anointed,” would know what that purpose is. Or perhaps more correctly purposes, plural.
There’s the overarching purpose linked to why God would anoint humans with spirit in the first place.
Then there’s the individual’s role. Each anointed individual is undoubtedly selected for a specific role that must fit within God’s greater framework or purpose. (1 Corinthians 12)
So I tend to agree with you, that individuals are anointed and bestowed with specific “gifts.”
Presently, these ‘anointings’ seem to be somewhat muted or limited. Yet, at some point, the Bible indicates a Joel 2 scenario playing out.
This is not what the Watchtower Society teaches. The Society believes the anointing is pretty well over. And they certainly don’t permit Jehovah to anoint individuals for specific tasks, let alone expect a future spectacular outpouring of spirit.
Good thing Christ is the head of the anointed and not them.
Thanks for raising this important thread.
Peace and Christian love
V
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racerunner
User Fresh Boarder
Posts: 1
Re:The annointed. - 2005/03/15 11:26Victory wrote: Good thing Christ is the head of the anointed and not them.
Great comments Victory! Praise Jehovah for setting up His loving Son to direct the congregation! Now that's a peaceful thought.
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Phi
Admin Admin
Posts: 278
Re:The annointed. - 2005/03/15 13:02Hey Warrior. I noticed that you hadn't commented again in this thread since my initial reply and I just wanted to make doubly sure you understood what I was saying in answer to your question: Does this exclude anyone else from being annointed at all?
Taking 'anointed' with the JW meaning of 'born again' then, yes, that is the orthodox JW view. But it certainly isn't mine. Not at all. And I daresay, it's not the view of many others here also (that last sentence doesn't quite work does it? But you know what I'm trying to say )
Philia Sis
PS. Thanks Victor, They were some very interesting and enlightening comments. I hadn't considered the word anointing in it's context before.
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