Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/22 21:04Dodger wrote: Maybe I should just ask this. Is it reasonable to conclude that Jehovah would choose his spirit annointed ones from any place in the world or would it be more logical for us to assume that he would choose those with a heavenly calling from one source of people who may be more inline with his teachings? Peace, Dodger
By "annointed ones" I'm assuming you mean the 144,000. I probably don't share the same views of the 144,000 and the "heavenly calling" as you do. Nonetheless, it's not for me to tread on divine territory and say it's reasonable to conclude that God will choose from one source of people because according to you or I they are more inline with God's teaching. Many religious people align themselves with a religion and deem it to be the favored religion/people of God because according their highly fallible reasoning they are more inline with God's teaching.
I personally favor the Christadelphians among Christendom. However, I'm not so high minded to think that because I favor their teachings (not all) that God must favor them among all of Christendom. Basically, it's not reasonable to conclude that Jehovah will pick from one source especially the source you or I favor because His Soveriegnty gives Him the right to pick whom He will pick from any source or sources He chooses. I don't draw organizational lines for the Almighty. That would make me a first class megolamaniac.
Christian Love, Dina
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Warrior
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Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/23 03:53God chooses people because of who HE is, not because of their teachings, doctrinal beliefs or works. He hardens whom he hardens, call whom he calls, and annoints whom he annoints.
Nothing to do with what we, with our imperfect, biased vision, assume he must do. Moses was a murderer, David was worse, Samson had a thing for whores. God called them to him according to his prpose as a testemony to his majesty.
Nicely said DXSharpe. Nicely said indeed.
(PS, if the 144000 are physical Israelites, that's God's perogotive too.)
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Dodger
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Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/23 08:38Hi warrior, The old testament proves what you just said as false. All three men you just mentioned were from the nation of Israel, right? So God is a little picky when it comes to choosing individuals and where they come from. The bible seems to indicate that first a person has to at least recognize certain important aspects of Gods will before they are chosen, otherwise the basis for a new covenant could be shot. It doesn't make sense to me at this point that some are chosen here and some over there and everywhere unless they were somewhat united in understanding of God and his will. What do you think? peace, Dodger
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Eden
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Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/23 11:01Job, the widow of Zarepheth, Niniveh, the good Samaritan.
Romans 9 - it depends not on the one running but on God who has mercy.
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Warrior
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Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/23 19:11Moses was brought up an Egyption, with Egyption beliefs, values and gods.
Besides, it was all about Israel, today, there is neither slave nor free, man nor woman, Jew or gentile, all are one is messiah.
My Jewish blood (according to my family, its a priestly line) does not make me anything more than someone who was born a gentile, or, for that matter, anything less.
God calls whom he would call. His Covenant is not only open to the houses of Israel and Judah any more.
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Phi
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Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/23 20:50Its funny how the traditional JW mindset immediately and unconsciously translates the the Biblical word "nation" into 'religion' LOL.
OK, so the Jews were "God's people" as a nation, and originally, all of one faith, one "religion". Well, according to the Bible they were still "His people" when the various tribes apostacised and praticed many "faiths" (religions) and when half of them were living among other non-israelite nations and they were still "His people" in the first century when Isral was made up of countless differing sects, many with quite radically differing religious beliefs. However, it seems impossible to those JWs who see parallels today between Christianity and ancient Israel that God could still consider any of those within other "tribes" of Christianity as "His people" (anointed) and approve of some members from within their "territory". In fact, they imagine them as being of other "nations" altogether, nations that God has nothing to do with and none of whose members he could possibly consider "His people". Well, I don't think that conclusion is supported by the Biblical evidence and precedents. If there are parallels then we should expect that: Just as God made a covenant with the Jews to be "His people" but they apostacised and even worshipped other god's at times, and developed many sects with differing ideas, ending up living far and wide beyond Israel's borders, then so too, he made a covenant with Christians in the first century, but they too apostacised into false worship and split into various sects. Just as apostasy didn't invalidate the Jews being "God's people" until he called them to account (or as some see it, they still are), so too we should expect that it doesn't invalidate Christendom's claim to be the whole territory of "His people" until he calls them all to account. If things follow the Biblical precedent set by Israel, then this is to be expected. What JW's imagine is akin to one of Israel's tribes having suddenly and arbitrarily declared that they alone are "God's people" of all the tribes of Israel, thousands of years atter God's covenant with all Israel, simply because they think themselves more righteous than their neighbours ("thank you, Lord, that I am not as this sinful tax collector" LOL), and wrongly calling their "tribe" a "nation". I'm afraid God didn't ever call the tribe of JW anointed a "nation", nor set their human sectarian boundaries as the boundary of "His people".
And appealling to what we think it would be "logical" for God to do in this matter is leaning upon our own understanding somewhat IMHO.
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