What defines a Jehovah's witness desciple for bapt - 2005/02/19 02:39What defines a Jehovah's witness disciple for baptism?
(Matthew 28:19-20) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them ... teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU.”
I hope all truly want to fulfil Jesus' commission. But the question remains at what point do you baptise interested persons? At what point are they a disciple? At what point can they be called a Jehovah's witness?
Re:What defines a Jehovah's witness desciple for b - 2005/02/19 02:53Hi Mars. In short. I think you can baptise a Christian very quickly indeed, as several passages in the NT make quite clear. We're all familiar with them. If someone heard and heartily accepted the simple gospel message, they were baptised.
You can baptise a Jehovah's Witness, on the the other hand, only after an extensive period of study of the WT's literature and association at it's meetings, careful scrutiny by the elders of your conformation with the Society's rules and their interpretation of Biblical principles with regard to your lifestyle, and finally - after a usually quite extensive period of time - baptism follows after answering a couple of hundred questions regarding your acceptance of WT teachings regarding the Bible and various restrictions.
So if you are talking about what SHOULD be done among JWs (or perhaps a JW coop? ) , then following the Biblical pattern would certainly be a good start, IMHO.
Phiia.
Phi.
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polemotheos
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Re:What defines a Jehovah's witness desciple for b - 2005/02/19 03:40Phi wrote: Hi Mars. In short. I think you can baptise a Christian very quickly indeed, as several passages in the NT make quite clear. We're all familiar with them. If someone heard and heartily accepted the simple gospel message, they were baptised. Phi.
Did the examples of those baptised very quickly in some passages of the NT make quite clear they already had prior knowledge of Jehovah?
What is the "simple gospel message"? And can we agree upon it?
Re:What defines a Jehovah's witness desciple for b - 2005/02/19 07:54Hi Mars. Some of them do indicate that those who were baptised quickly had a prior knowledge of Jehovah, yes. Others do not. And none of them even remotely hint at the drawn out process the WT insists upon.
"But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news...they proceeded to be baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12:14 (including Simon, a magician)
[Macedonian jailor] "Sirs what must I do to get saved? They [Paul and Silas] said believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household. And they spoke the word of Jehovah to him together with all those in his house. And he took them along in that hour and bathed their stripes and, one and all he and his were baptised without delay." Acts 16:25-34. (This all occured, during one night, before the jailor and his family had time even to set a meal before Paul and Silas! LOL)
"And many of the Corinthians that heard began to believe and be baptized" Acts 18:8.
That last question regarding the "gospel message" is an excellent one Mars. And I would like to post again on that. I hope we have more comments on that subject too. But the above shows that it was so simple, so powerful, that it could be taught and accepted in a couple of hours, if that. "Knowlege" was of little relevance as was proof of commitment. The simplicity of the message was "foolishness" to fleshly minds, who instead put faith in "signs" or "wisdom", (or works) but this simple message was "the power of God". Paul called the message simply "Christ impaled". 1 Cor 1:22-25. To those who think more is required before baptism can be performed and the ransom accepted and applied, The first to chapters of 1 Corinthians should prove to be enlightening.
Much Philia Bro.
Phi.
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/02/19 07:58
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/02/19 08:00
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polemotheos
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Re:What defines a Jehovah's witness desciple for b - 2005/02/19 08:22I would consider taking the scriptures in context;
(Acts 18:7-8) 7 Accordingly he transferred from there and went into the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God, whose house was adjoining the synagogue. 8 But Cris´pus the presiding officer of the synagogue became a believer in the Lord, and so did all his household. And many of the Corinthians that heard began to believe and be baptized.
Surly you weren't quoting a scripture of the conversion of proselytes as proof they had no knowledge of Jehovah?
[Macedonian jailer] "Sirs what must I do to get saved?" His own words prove he knew he needed to be saved and that there was a way to get saved.
At any rate I look forward to your explanation of the "gospel message" and I truly agree with you that it is simple. much love, Mars
Re:What defines a Jehovah's witness desciple for b - 2005/02/19 08:46LOL. I certainly did read them in context Bro. The Scripture at Acts 18:7-8. discusses the Jews or proselytes and then continues "AND the Corinthians that heard began to believe and be baptised" This is in addition to the Jews that had been earlier mentioned. Surely you are not suggesting that "and the Corinthians" in any way can be limited to the Jews or proselytes? This discussion of preaching to 'many of the Corinthians' who heard and became baptised follows Paul's assertion to the Jews of Corinth in verse 6 that "From now on I will go to people of the nations" If the context tells us anything it's that these were Corinthian people of the nations who did not know Jehovah.
And the Macedonian jailors asking what he needed to do to get saved betrays no prior knowledge of Jehovah at all. "Get saved" was the Christian message, and Paul and Silas were blazing the Christian trail in Macedonia. What do you think Paul and Silas were in jail for? For preaching that people should get saved. They were "praying and praising God" in the jail and the prisoners were "hearing them". LOL. Its doesnt take long to accept that we need to get saved.
Christian: "Woship God and follow his Son Jesus, who died for our sins. Get saved!"
Macedonian: "Er, no thanks, I'm OK as I am. It's more than my job's worth."
[Miraculous earthquake frees Christians, but they don't flee, saving jailors life]
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) , then following the Biblical pattern would certainly be a good start, IMHO. 
much love,