The Israel of God - 2005/03/24 15:08The topic of anything relating to Israel (the true Israel not the WT version of Israel) is my most favorite subject so I thought I'd jump in and share my understanding of what the Israel of God is.
I will try to make my thoughts as succinct as possible for the sake of brevity.
Firstly, I believe that the true Israelites are still God's covenant people. God promised to NEVER cast them off as a nation. Most Christian religions have claimed that God has forsaken and forgotten Zion. Even Zion itself has said, "The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me."Isaiah 49:14 "He told the nation of Israel, "Could a mother forget a child who nurses at her breast? Could she fail to love an infant who came from her own body? Even if a mother could forget, I will never forget you. Isaiah 49:15 Jehovah then says there is no possibility He will forsake them He tells them, See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me. Isaiah 49:16 By engraving Israel into His palms He ensures His ownership of them forever. In Jer 31 Jehovah tells Israel that He will forgive their sins and remember their wickedness no more. The sun will vanish and the stars and moon will stop giving it's light and the depths of the earth can be searched out and the expanses of the heavens can measured before God reject the nation of Israel. Well, I still see the sun and the moon and the stars give it's light and nobody thus far has searched out the depths of the earth or measured the expanses of the heavens so that is a sure sign God has not rejected the nation of Israel.
Israel of God = Firstfruits = Remant of Israel = 144,000
For JW's these are buzz words that signify the "heavenly hope" class that will reign with Jesus for the 1000 years as kings and priests. They're a mixture of a small number of Jews and the rest those not of the nation of Israel. The firstfruits being of the "heavenly class" as opposed to the "other sheep ie; earthly class". The only thing that can be substantiated is that they reign as kings and priests. The rest cannot be substantiated by scripture.
The firstfruits are those who are redeemed from among men first. Scripture tells us that salvation comes to the Jew first then the Gentile. Romans 1:16 James tells us, "Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. " If we go to James 1:1 we see that he wrote to the twelve tribes of Israel that had been scattered among the nations. James 1:1 Rev 14:4 we see the same thought here when speaking of the 144,000 4These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
Some here might object to the notion that the 144,000 are really of Israel because after the Jews killed Jesus they were cast off. God was done with them. True, many Israelites rejected the Messiah. But not all of them. Just a few weeks after the pentecost tens of thousands of Israelites accepted Jesus. They were being converted by the masses. This was something Paul was very much aware of because he along with Jehovah's help was converting them. Did Paul think that the promises God made to Israel were done away with? No, Paul says in Acts 26, 6 "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers. 7 "To this [promise] our twelve tribes, earnestly serving [God] night and day, hope to attain. For this hope's sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews. Remarkably, but not surprising there was as God promised a faithful remnant of Israel serving God. The twelve tribes of faithful Israel still hoped in the promises God made to Israel's fathers. That of course would include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, Daniel and David. The thought of God revoking His promises to the twelve tribes was a completely foreign idea to these Israelite Christians. The twelve tribes that remained faithful make up the Israel of God. And one day hopefully not to long from now Jesus will restore the Kingdom to Israel.
Christian Love, Dina
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Josh
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Posts: 55
Re:The Israel of God - 2005/03/24 15:22Dina,
Excellent post!
It is interesting that for 2000 years the Jews have been spread throughout the world and many have been forced to convert to Christianity or have changed their names in order to avoid being persecuted.
As a result of this many today who have non-Jewish surnames may in the distant past have had Jewish ancestors and therefore Jewish blood. Enough Jewish blood to be considered by their God as Jews though they themselves do not know it.
Yes, many Jews will be called both the Jew by name and the Jew by blood.
Much love to you, Josh
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Warrior
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Posts: 128
Re:The Israel of God - 2005/03/24 19:41I agree, there will be much Jewish blood scattered amongst the nations.
Yet also, despite everything, despite thousands of years of persecution culmulating in the haulocaust(this is the one everyone's heard of) somehow the Jews still remain a distinct nation. A distinct people. Somehow they don't get absorbed into the culture or nation in which they live.
They remain set-apart.
Israel is flourishing in Jewish hands despite all the troubles. Physically, the land, the crops, it's flourishing. There is a great joy in the land that even the threat of death can't deminish. I love traditional Jewish music, there is an indominable spirit of joy there that has never become a mournful lament.
I do believe God has brought the battered remnant (or some of them) back to Israel as a testemony to his love and faithfulness. He is a God of unconditional love, most Jews do not know his son and yet he still cares for them and he would still use and redeem them for his glory.
Ah, le-shana ha-ba birushalayim indeed. (Next year in Jerusalem - traditionally it's always hoped the messiah will have come by next year)
Shalom everyone.
I dislike this "spiritual Israel" replacement theology that the JW's have in common with many, many churches through the years. Historically, it's led to some real atrocities against my people. I do believe that, when anyone accepts Jesus they have a position as God's special possession and in this, the phrase "spiritual Israel" is understandable because it makes you distinct from the "Spiritual Goyim." But the language becomes confusing. I prefer to think of Christians as "God's children, co-heirs with Christ." Surely to be a co-heir with Christ is better than being "spiritul Israel?" Being adopted by God himself is a closer position to him than Israel ever had. Believe me, all Israel will look on in envy when they see the promises fulfilled for God's children. In the meantime, I believe the ancient promises to Physical Israel still stand.
That the promises to physical Israel still stand in no way means those becoming God's children today have anything less to inherit. (last shall be first and first last remember) God has more than enough good promises for all his scattered children. Jew, Gentile or something in between.
Post edited by: Warrior, at: 2005/03/24 19:42
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Phi
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Posts: 278
Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/02 09:17Hi Dina. I've just got around to properly reading this thread. You make some excellent points. I certainly do get the impression that at least some of the Biblical references to 'Israel' and the Jews and to God's plans for them have been wrongly appropriated by 'the Church'. Much food for thought. Thanks.
Philia.
Phi.
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/04/02 09:19
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imbrium
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Posts: 11
Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/02 16:58Someone with some knowledge on the subject should write about replacement theology .This is a subject I have never come across before. Maybe warrior could explain it in detail
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polemotheos
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Posts: 530
Re:The Israel of God - 2005/04/02 18:08(Romans 9:6) However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel.”
(Matthew 23:38) Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU.
(Romans 2:28) For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside,
(Revelation 2:9) ‘I know your tribulation and poverty—but you are rich—and the blasphemy by those who say they themselves are Jews, and yet they are not but are a synagogue of Satan.
(Revelation 3:9) Look! I will give those from the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews, and yet they are not but are lying—look! I will make them come and do obeisance before your feet and make them know I have loved you.Your Peace, Surrender, In You, YHVH Re-connect Co-operative
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