Epignossis
User
Platinum Boarder
| Posts: 151 |   |
|
Re:For Eden Romans 9 - 2005/03/04 16:00
Ok I'm gonna give it a go. I am not as conversant as you guys with these books of Romans et al (hey there's Al again  ) but my angle is slightly different anyway.
The thought I had focuses on Abraham and the promise of the seed. Here are the concepts I see
Seed = lineage
Son = seed
My reasoning is that we don't tend to think of a person's seed separate from the lineage that flows from that person.
Also when we talk of sonship, do we not tend to think of the lineage of that son? even in the case of adoption, it is still adoption into the lineage - grafted in to the line.
I believe there is a relationship between the lineage, hence seed, and the "calling". This version of Romans 9:7 from the Amplified bible really made me think about this connection
And they are not all the children of Abraham because they are by blood his descendants. No, [the promise was] Your descendants will be called and counted through the line of Isaac [though Abraham had an older son].
This also explains for me what is meant by the foreordaining or foreknowing. That foreordaining is as a result of the lineage - a connection to the line and the ability to know where that line is going to go. This was certainly true of Jesus.
Even though the records to prove lineage have gone, I don't think this prevents there being a lineage in fact. It is not as if the lineage Abraham suddenly ceased in the first century. This would be true of both Judah and Israel whose records of lineage had been long gone.
However, despite the lack of record, it is the spirit that would let people know. This is clear from Romans 8:15-17
but YOU received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: "Abba, Father!" 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.
Note the words adoption as sons. In the NWT footnote is says "placed as sons". Given that he was talking to mostly fleshly Jews, it confirms that being a Jew does not automatically provide a "place". However, this is not the same as saying therefore those that are placed do not have lineage.
The issue of being a Jew and the superiority or otherwise of the Jew is I think a refinement of the matter of lineage. I can see where Stormy was coming from with the matter of nationality. The nation was to hold the Law, which in turn would point up the need for salvation. If that was the point of the Law, then conceivably that was the point of the nation. Perhaps this is what is meant by Romans 3:1-2
What, then, is the superiority of the Jew, or what is the benefit of the circumcision? 2 A great deal in every way. First of all, because they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God
There is probably more to the point than that but I agree that the nationality issue is no longer and issue - there is neither Jew nor gentile in the body of Christ but I would also say that the seed does include the whole lineage.
Well Eden and Stormy, those are my first sketchy thoughts on this. I hope that you can enlighten me further and this may help you too.
May the spirit shine on you.
ePig 
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3 |
Forum 
