Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/20 08:58Hi Phi
I simply asking, who organised the meeting place, the time, who would be invited, how they would proceed, what would be done with the decision, who would see that the decision was carried out, etc..
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Eden
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/20 09:25Hi Amosfamily,
Well, Holy Spirit was definitely in control. Paul went down to Jerusalem as a result of a vision. But IMO, this 'meeting' has been greatly over-emphasized as a precendent for Christian protocol.
For example, what if the coversations we've had on this forum turn out to be inspired by God (forgive me, be assured, there are no delusions of grandure) and 100 years from now, some people take the format as a precedent for 'aproved worship' - questions like, who built the site, who moderated it, who particpated etc etc become relevant when actually they are completely irrelevant.
The point is, I have attended gatherings where IMO, holy spirit has organised the whole thing - by no arrangement by humans, freinds of like mind have got together for the purpose of worshipping Jah. If we try to package and formalize this occurance, aren't we leaving God's spirit out of the picture?
God's people are united by love and faith, not by an institution.
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Warrior
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/20 09:33That is exactly right Eden
When the spirit gets to set the agenda and call the right people, then the fruits are fantastic.
Problem is, we humans like to be in control. We like to know when, where and whom in advance. It freaks us out when we have to rely on God and nothing else.
Yet Jesus told his disciples to take nothing with them. He certainly didn't set them a complicated agenda and furnish them with a bank account.
When the spirit moves we either say "yes Lord" or "no."
There's no room for "Perhaps, if you give me more details/give me time/tell me again next year."
Much shalom.
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Phi
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/20 09:43Very true. And lets not forget that Jesus purpose in arranging that meeting through Paul and the brothers in Antioch was to break the hold of power that some of the presumptuous brothers in Jerusalem had begun to exercise over the brotherhood. That meeting was to resist the oppression of hierarchical "organisation", not to further it. As Eden indicated, Acts merely records the content of the letter that the older men sent out and that it was sent out, the letter itself was not Scripture, IMHO. I am not at all convinced that the letter itself was wholly in harmony with Jesus wishes (any more than the behaviour of many of the older men had previously been), because while it asked Gentile Christians to abstain from foods it claimed were "polluted" by Idols, Paul argued at length in his letters that this was not true, and that foods offered to idols were not actually "polluted" at all.
Much Philia.
Phi.
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/20 12:49
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amosfamily
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/21 17:56Well, Paul spoke of a list for widows in need, 1 Timothy 5:9-10 9 Let a widow be put on the list who has become not less than sixty years old, a wife of one husband, 10 having a witness borne to her for fine works, if she reared children, if she entertained strangers, if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she relieved those in tribulation, if she diligently followed every good work.
Did holy spirit make this list materialise?
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Eden
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/21 22:16Hi Afam,
Well ok, I'm assuming a human put pen to paper (or papyrus) for that list. Seeing that we are human, we can only function as such - yes, it is me typing now. I am not advocating that we all sit down and attain enlightenment on the astroplane.
Paul had something none of us have today (to my knowledge). He referred to himself and the other Apostles as 'substitutes for Christ' - he took a trip into 3rd heaven. He spoke of having FULL knowledge, of having fought the fine fight and secured his 'crown of life'. The point is, he was qualified to command this or that. (1 Tim 1:3, 1 Tim 1:12-16, 1 Tim 5:21) But he NEVER acted as a go between for man and God. He never did - away with the thought!
He was dismayed by the feeblemindedness of those that 'belonged to Paul' or Apolos etc. This is the problem with religious organisations, the irrisistable tendancy for ANY human group is for one man to dominate another. They say, "I belong to the Catholics, I to JW's" - Jesus did not establish a religious organisation - he fulfilled one and nailed it to a tree. The faith has arrived.
So here we are, a group of Christians functioning, worshipping together. Have we formed a religious organisation? Away with the thought! But we are gathering together to incite one-another to love and fine works. Should we laud Epig for building this site (writing the list) - no, but we work together in the spirit of co-operation.
Pauls words to Timothy here says it all for me,
Really the objective of this mandate is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy
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