Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/22 06:29Those ones that had their favourites in Paul or Apollos had a spiritual problem, not the fact that they were organised.
In creation, Jehovah has odered everything from subatomic particles to the universe. Why would he not expect his people to be orderly?
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Phi
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/22 07:51Hi Amosfamily.
He does expect them to be orderly, to the degree that He wishes, which is why he has sent the holy spirit to orchestrate the members of the body of Christ. He didn't send an "organization" to regulate his followers every move. The reason why the body of Christ is sickly is because they have paid more attention to the organizations of men than to the holy spirit.
Much Philia.
Phi
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Eden
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/23 12:10I am not saying we should be dis-oderly!!!!
The word 'organisation' is a word that has conotations of uniform control under the direction of a team of men. This construct has no place in the body of Christ.
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amosfamily
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/23 16:42The word organise means; to give orderly structure to; systemise.
So you agree that someone, somewhere, at sometime, has to make decisions so that things can take place in an organised manner.
Consider for example, the growing list on e-w site who want to get together. We wouldn't expect holy spirit to simply cause us to drift to the same place at the same time for a meeting. On the other hand, would it be wise to meet together, after all this is what C T Russell did when he was only 19.
Post edited by: amosfamily, at: 2005/03/23 16:44
Post edited by: amosfamily, at: 2005/03/23 16:53
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Eden
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/23 18:22Hi Afam,
Well yes ok. Human relationships need not be complicated. If a friend rings you up on the phone and suggests going to the movies** at 8:00, you can agree to it or not depending on your circumstances. You may say, "oh, thanks Jim*, but I can't make it tonight, I have a previous engagement." or on the other hand you may say, "yeah Jim*, that'd be great, see you there."
For this to happen do you and Jim* need a world wide corperate juggernaut to coordinate your outing? Or because Jim* was the one who initiated the rendevous, is he the presiding overseer of the event, the one taking the lead?
**Of course it would be a movie with a rating of no more than PG *please note, name may not be actual name of freind.
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Epignossis
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Re:Another Sort of Good News? - 2005/03/23 18:59Well guys, I like to think this site is organised by some very capable people (despite what some people might think )
We are free agents and yes we can surely make a reservation for a movie and meet together as we see fit. We can put up posts and clank away to our heart's content.
Yet I also like to think we are organised under the direction of spirit and that that takes precedence. Just as Phi and Eden say, it orchestrates. Where things would go wrong is if WE start orchestrating. I think that is where WTS has fallen down. (And here I have another plug for the golden calf argument) WTS didn't wait. They thought their master was delaying so they have taken things into their own hands and started orchestrating the kingdom. They want to effect the vision of 1914 and make it come true.
How do we know that the spirit is in fact operating and organising us. Well, must be by the fruitage of that spirit. So unless those fruitages are present it is just us folks doin the orchestrating. The same question has to be asked of WTS. Who is orchestrating there. Evidently the GB and FDS through the visible organisation. It takes precedence.
Sure the spirit can still use WTS. Hell, it can use anyone it wants! Prior to the destruction of Jerusalem first time up, it used the King arrangement to bring about the Davidic line. That was a faithless, God dishonoring arrangement. Yet it got used. But equally that organisational arrangement was stripped away and binned.
Same with the Jewish system. It was the system that was ended. In principle then it is not hard to see that an organisational arrangement can be terminated but the people within that arrangement put under a new one - dare I say something like a New Covenant arrangement. I think the body of the arrangement always has been and always will be spiritual. It is the nature of the administration around the body that can be changed according to the purpose required.
Here we are endeavouring to establish an arrangement (the website) to build up the body. The admin is nothing on its own. Only its purpose is meaningful. Once that purpose is no longer there, bin it!! Even the kingdom itself will suffer that fate!
Well there's my 2 cents worth
Much love to all
ePig Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3
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