When is it Too Late? - 2005/03/13 10:37Sorry about the size of this post. I've written the first draft of an essay and would like your input on it before I put it up. Let me know what you think.
donbodo jwreform.org
When is it Too Late?
On some of the internet sites devoted to free discussion among Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is renewed interest in Bible prophecy and its application to our own times. Many argue that the prophecies that once applied to the destructions of Israel and Judah in times past now apply to God’s modern day organization. Many are aware of the less-than-savory activities in which the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has been involved, of errors in judgment and interpretation, and in the mistreatment of Jehovah’s people by the brothers in charge. They see a parallel between the organization today and apostate Israel and Judah, and they are eager to apply the judgments made to those ancient states to our own organization.
Because of these applications, many are saying that there is no longer any hope for the organization, that its destruction is predetermined and unavoidable. The downfall of the Society and the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a done deal. It is therefore inappropriate and against the will of God to try to salvage an organization that is going to be brought to ruin. If we involve ourselves in any attempts to rescue it, we are working against the spirit of God.
Is this position in keeping with the principles of Scripture?
It is very easy to take historical events described in the Bible and reapply them to our own age and time. People have done it on many occasions over the years. They have often been in error. Our own organization has often been mistaken on this point. Because the Bible is so full of various historical accounts dealing with many aspects of ancient Israelite society, there is no difficulty in finding in its pages parallels with today. But, although we learn from past events, are we to understand that the events described will always repeat themselves? Interpreters talk of first, second, and third fulfillments of prophecies, and even more. But who are we to think that everything in the Bible applies to us? Is this not presumptuous? It is understandable that we wish to be a part of God’s purposes, and we no doubt are, but it is a form of conceit to think that vast passages in the Bible are applicable to us. It is an error that the Watchtower Society has easily fallen into and we should be careful not to repeat.
On the other hand, the leaders of the organization are clearly engaging in activity that upsets our God Jehovah, and these wrongs cannot continue. If corrections are not made, then punishment might realistically be forthcoming. Perhaps these old prophecies will be fulfilled once again. For the sake of argument, let’s say that the forecasters of doom mentioned above are correct and that the Watchtower Society and the leadership of the organization are going to be destroyed or disciplined in the near future. How are we to respond to such a revelation?
In the case of ancient Judah, prophecies about its destruction began appearing early on. Some of the prophets are hard to date, but we can be certain that at least from the time of Hezekiah, prophecies of Jerusalem’s doom were being proclaimed. The prophet Micah was one of those who predicted doom for the city (Micah 3:9-12). According to Jeremiah, the destruction would have happened in Hezekiah’s time were it not for the repentance of the people:
“Certain ones of the older men of the land rose up and began saying to all the congregation of the people: ‘Micah of Moresheth himself happened to be prophesying in the days of Hezekiah the king of Judah and went on to say to all the people of Judah, “This is what Jehovah of armies has said: ‘Zion herself will be plowed up as a mere field, and Jerusalem herself will become mere heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the House will be for high places of a forest.’” Did Hezekiah the king of Judah and all those of Judah by any means put him to death? Did he not fear Jehovah and proceed to soften the face of Jehovah, so that Jehovah got to feeling regret for the calamity that he had spoken against them?’” (Jer. 26:17-19)
When they speak of Jehovah “feeling regret,” they mean he changed his course of action (it-2, 776). Micah’s prophecy of destruction was annulled, at least for the time being, because of the proper response the people had (including the king) to his prophecy.
A similar sequence of events is described in the book of Jonah. God told Jonah to proclaim the following prophecy to the city of Nineveh (the worst city on the face of the earth at the time):
“Only forty days more, and Nineveh will be overthrown” (Jonah 3:4).
However, the people of the city, including the king, repented from their evil ways, and Jehovah annulled the prophecy.
In both of these cases, the cities were eventually destroyed (many years later, in both cases). Still, it is clear that Jehovah’s punishments will never come upon those who repent of their evil ways. It only comes upon the unrepentant. It is also significant that even after a definite prophecy of doom was delivered, it still was not too late for the people to change their ways. In the case of Nineveh, the destruction was only 40 days away, and yet it was not too late for repentance.
In the days of Josiah, the prophetess Huldah uttered the words of this prophecy to the king:
“This is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am bringing calamity upon this place and upon its inhabitants, even all the words of the book that the king of Judah has read; due to the fact that they have left me and have gone making sacrificial smoke to other gods in order to offend me with all the work of their hands, and my rage has been set afire against this place and will not be extinguished.” (2 Kings 22:16-17).
Some may note that Huldah says that God’s rage “will not be extinguished” and from these words make an argument that it was too late, then, for anyone to stop the calamity from coming upon Judah. But is that what she really meant? Let’s look at the facts.
Jeremiah was one of Jehovah’s foremost prophets in the days leading up to the end of the kingdom. He prophesied during the reigns of Josiah, Jehoahaz, Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah, the last five kings of Judah. Do his prophecies reflect the outlook that it was too late for Judah? And does he, therefore, resist any attempts at getting the kings or the people to reform? On the contrary. Note the following excerpts from some of his prophecies:
“In the beginning of the royal rule of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, the king of Judah, this word occurred from Jehovah, saying, ‘This is what Jehovah has said, “Stand in the courtyard of the house of Jehovah, and you must speak concerning all the cities of Judah that are coming in to bow down at the house of Jehovah all the words that I will command you to speak to them. Do not take away a word. Perhaps they will listen and return, each one from his bad way, and I shall have to feel regret for the calamity that I am thinking to execute upon them because of the badness of their dealings.” And you must say to them: “This is what Jehovah has said, ‘If you will not listen to me by walking in my law that I have put before you, by listening to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I am sending to you, even rising up early and sending them, whom you have not listened to, I will, in turn, make this house like that in Shiloh, and this city I shall make a malediction to all the nations of the earth.’”’”(Jer. 26:1-6)
“And the word of Jehovah continued to occur to me, saying: ‘Am I not able to do just like this potter to you people, O house of Israel?’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘Look! As the clay in the hand of the potter, so you are in my hand, O house of Israel. At any moment that I may speak against a nation and against a kingdom to uproot it and to pull it down and to destroy it, and that nation actually turns back from its badness against which I spoke, I will also feel regret over the calamity that I had thought to execute upon it. But at any moment that I may speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom to build it up and to plant it, and it actually does what is bad in my eyes by not obeying my voice, I will also feel regret over the good that I said to myself to do for its good.’ “And now say, please, to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, ‘This is what Jehovah has said: “Here I am forming against you a calamity and thinking against you a thought. Turn back, please, each one from his bad way, and make your ways and your dealings good.”’” (Jer. 18:5-11)
As in the case of Jerusalem in the time of Micah, and Nineveh in the time of Jonah, the kingdom of Judah, even in the years immediately preceding its destruction, still had the opportunity to repent. It was not too late. Jehovah clearly tells the people through his prophet that he will turn back the calamity that he pronounced upon them if they return to doing good.
Jeremiah’s prophecies frequently contain admonitions to the rulers of Judah and to the people. He tells them to repent and lets them know what changes they need to make in order to be restored to God’s favor. During Jehoiakim’s reign, Jeremiah said:
“From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, the king of Judah, and down to this day, these twenty-three years the word of Jehovah has occurred to me, and I kept speaking to you people, rising up early and speaking, but you did not listen. And Jehovah sent to you all his servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, but you did not listen, neither did you incline your ear to listen, they saying, ‘Turn back, please, every one from his bad way and from the badness of your dealings, and continue dwelling upon the ground that Jehovah gave to you and to your forefathers from long ago and to a long time to come. And do not walk after other gods in order to serve them and to bow down to them, that you may not offend me with the work of your hands, and that I may not cause calamity to you.’ “‘But you did not listen to me,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘to the intent that you might offend me with the work of your hands, for calamity to yourselves.’ (Jer. 25:3-7)
During the reign of the last king, Zedekiah, Jeremiah preached this message:
“This is what Jehovah has said: ‘Go down to the house of the king of Judah, and you must speak there this word. And you must say, “Hear the word of Jehovah, O king of Judah who are sitting on the throne of David, you with your servants and your people, those who are coming in through these gates. This is what Jehovah has said: ‘Render justice and righteousness, and deliver the one that is being robbed out of the hand of the defrauder; and do not maltreat any alien resident, fatherless boy or widow. Do them no violence. And do not shed any innocent blood in this place. For if you will by all means perform this word, there will also certainly come in through the gates of this house the kings sitting for David upon his throne, riding in chariots and on horses, he with his servants and his people. But if you will not obey these words, by myself I do swear,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that this house will become a mere devastated place.’”’” (Jer. 22:1-5; see also 21:11-12)
Even at the very end, God was providing opportunity for his people and their leaders to turn around. If they did so, they would survive. As it happens, they did not. But they were given a chance. And it was the responsibility of Jeremiah and other servants of Jehovah not only to inform the people and the rulers of their wicked ways, but also to encourage them to do what was right.
It was important for God’s prophets to sound these warnings. If they did not, they would be considered bloodguilty, as God informed the prophet Ezekiel in the days leading up to Jerusalem’s destruction:
"When someone righteous turns back from his righteousness and actually does injustice and I must put a stumbling block before him, he himself will die because you did not warn him. For his sin he will die, and his righteous acts that he did will not be remembered, but his blood I shall ask back from your own hand. And as for you, in case you have warned someone righteous that the righteous one should not sin, and he himself does not actually sin, he will without fail keep on living because he had been warned, and you yourself will have delivered your own soul.” (Ezekiel 3:18-21)
It is clear, therefore, that even if the leaders of Jehovah’s Witnesses are in God’s disfavor, and if their works merit some kind of harsh punishment, then it is not only proper for faithful servants of Jehovah, who know what is right, to warn them and urge them to reform, but also their duty to do so. We should not look forward to the destruction of our organization, but lament it, as Jeremiah did Jerusalem, and do all we can to save it, as did the faithful prophets of old. Whether or not our leaders listen is up to them.
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Phi
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Posts: 278
Re:When is it Too Late? - 2005/03/13 10:47Yeah, really good Donbodo.
I don't believe that the Hebrew prophesies apply to the WT, but this essay takes it from the angle that, even if they did, that still doesn't mean that destruction must come, or if it does, that it has to come now, or that the leaders cannot repent and 'soften' God's face.
Excellent stuff.
Philia.
Phi.
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Phi
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Posts: 278
Re:When is it Too Late? - 2005/03/13 10:51One other thought: I can imagine that most of the people who would disagree with that essay would come from the angle that the prophesys must be fulfilled upon the WT and that they CANT be delayed any longer - to accomodate repentance - because the 'end is so close'. I think the imminent end idea might be used by some in an attempt to refute your reasoning so perhaps some comments about that might be useful?
Just a thought.
Phi
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/13 10:52
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Epignossis
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Posts: 151
Re:When is it Too Late? - 2005/03/13 12:09Phi wrote: Yeah, really good Donbodo.
I don't believe that the Hebrew prophesies apply to the WT, but this essay takes it from the angle that, even if they did, that still doesn't mean that destruction must come, or if it does, that it has to come now, or that the leaders cannot repent and 'soften' God's face.
Excellent stuff.
Philia.
Phi.
Hey Don, have to agree with Phi words here - excellent stuff! I should mention too that at one time I thought there was a direct parallel between WTS and the Jewish system and that there was a certain inevitability in what would take place. I have since moved from that position and I think I am in a similar place to Phi (if not the same place). There is a lot more in that statement but suffice to say we are all own our own journies of discovery and apprehend stuff as we go.
Given where you are coming from, I completely agree with your view of the principles though. A couple of things pop into my head immediately.
You and this argument remind me of Abraham! He was pretty sure there was something worth saving. I am not here saying that the WTS is Sodom and Gomorrah. Just confirming the simple principle about Jehovah's will as expressed in 1 Tim 2:4
This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth
Creating a parallel between the apostate house and WTS does tend to create some sense of inevitability, given that is how it turned out in the parallel, eventually - ie the recorded repentances didn't stick in the case of the house. So the sense of inevitability I guess is inherent in creating the parallel. Otherwise you would have to say there is a parallel but in this case the parallel will not apply to the house at least this time around.
Also, detaching WTS from the parallel, ie saying this is an exception, may also raise the question "well if it is an exception in respect of the house, for which the earlier precedents seems to go the other way, what makes us so sure there is in fact a parallel?" Which in turn gets us back in to the territory of whether those or any prophecies apply to WTS.
If there is a parallel, then I wonder whether the comparison is to "old wineskins". So that while there may be repentence, the new wineskin while it resembles an old one, it is nevertheless "new". It might have the features of an old wineskin but be completely new. That may be something different from a patched or "reformed" old wineskin.[/i]
[i] I really liked the stuff over in the love thread started by Phi. Aaron too made an intersting comment
If we desire to come 'in union' with him and in union with his Father, than rather than trying to 'carrying on' a 'way of life'.. we would prefer to actually "become" what they are, that is, love.
What I really liked about this statement was that it tended to detune our focus on institutional things - e.g WTS way of life - and refocus on becoming "love". That to me would make a fine new wineskin and the only real container that we might need.
Don, I hope this last comment is not taken as meaning you should not endeavour to pursue the course you are taking. It is absolutely fine to seek the principle of forgiveness and salvation.
Well Don, I hope these comments help you in seeking the best for our brothers and sisters.
Ps - can we post the essay here, when you finish!
Very much love, power and spirit to you
ePig
Post edited by: epignossis, at: 2005/03/13 12:21Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3
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