Re:False Gods - 2005/03/17 13:19LOL. 'Information overload' eh Bro. Wasn't there an awake about that years ago? LOL.
Much Philia.
Phi.
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donbodo
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Posts: 125
Re:False Gods - 2005/03/17 17:30Phi,
I'm not so sure that you can call Paul's persecutions a type of reform, but even if you could, all that suggests is that there is a right way to reform and a wrong way. Jesus tried to do it the right way, that is, non-violently. It didn't work, but that wasn't his fault.
Eden,
Although I think organized religion is an "operation of error," I don't think that's what Paul had in mind when he said that. The context says that he is speaking of people who don't except the love of the truth. He says that there is an operation (something working inside of them) of error in each one of them, so that they believe lies.
Although I think organized religion is an "operation of error," I don't think that's what Paul had in mind when he said that. The context says that he is speaking of people who don't except the love of the truth. He says that there is an operation (something working inside of them) of error in each one of them, so that they believe lies.
Here's my view:
The verse in question says:So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
The context is of course the man of sin (lawlessness takes longer to type ) sitting in the temple, assuming a prominent place. If the 'them' are the disciples of the man of sin, (or the 'man of sin' composite) this could apply to the 2000 year long 'progress' of apostasy from the 'already at work' lawlessness of Paul's day right thru til now and on to the end.
In truth, the man of sin is the ultimate false god, the anti-christ. The 'lie' they get to believe, is they deserve the prominence and authority the apostate sitting in the temple affords them. Corperate structures are the very place where men believing this lie can flourish. They cannot flourish without them. History testifies to the fact that Jehovah has allowed these institutions to exsist and thrive, to reveal the hearts of these that believe that lie, because these ones do not believe the truth but take pleasure in unrighteousness.
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amosfamily
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Re:False Gods - 2005/03/17 20:54I agree. That's what makes the Society the ultimate hypocrites. We like to pour scorn on Christendom, but they unashamedly 'do as they preach' (worship idols, Mary, angels, etc.). The Society piously looks down on the clergy and claims that it is Jehovah's clean org. What better parallel to the pharisee's could you get.
Post edited by: amosfamily, at: 2005/03/17 20:55
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Phi
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Re:False Gods - 2005/03/18 14:11Hi. Well seeing as between them the Jewish religious leaders of Jesus day believed in and taught the immortality of the soul, torment in hell, and, I believe, a God who had more than 'person' to him, then I feel that a better fit for a parallel of the likes of the Pharisees would be the leaders of Chrstendom as a whole. Christendom's leaders promote the same or similar beliefs as those of the Jews of Jesus day, as well as often imitating the hypocrisy of the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees. Though certainly, with their own brand of false teachings and hypocrisy, the WT leaders fit right in with the clergy of Christendom too.
Philia.
Phi
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/18 14:43
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donbodo
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Posts: 125
Re:False Gods - 2005/03/18 16:13Yes, I think you're right, Phi. There's an interesting parallel between Israelite religion/Judaism and Christianity. They both grew to include many different sects or factions. Notice how Jesus spoke to all Jews, whether Pharisees, Sadduccees, Essenes, whatever. He criticized them for various problems they had, but he did not say that one of them was the best or only one approved by God. He just empathized with the people. We have a parallel with Christianity. It comes in many different forms, some better than others. If Jesus were here, he would certainly point out hypocrisies and errors in various Christian denominations. But would he single out one as the only one approved by God? I wonder about that. I think he would just spend some time with the sheep and help them out.
Forum 
Wasn't there an awake about that years ago? LOL.
) sitting in the temple, assuming a prominent place. If the 'them' are the disciples of the man of sin, (or the 'man of sin' composite) this could apply to the 2000 year long 'progress' of apostasy from the 'already at work' lawlessness of Paul's day right thru til now and on to the end.