Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 13:51Some have accussed me of being a Watchman idolizer. I'll say one thing I am not that nor a WT idolizer. My whole goal is to worship with spirit and truth and be with my God Jehovah and my Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
There are many things in the scriptures that we simply don't understand fully at this time but there are many that are very clear. In this thread I would like to define those things that are clear. Things that Christ told us about and warned us about. Many of these things we understand but Christedom doesn't. I say this because out of the many conversations I have had with born christians, catholics protestants etc.. none of them have every either thought of them or even have an idea about them or care about these topics. Some may have ideas about them but I have not run into many that do.
One is being separate from the world. As Jw's we see the need to be separate from the world. Although those who have taken the lead amoung us have failed in this respect most of us still hold to this scared Bible belief.
Jas 4:4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.
Jas 1:27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
We all know Christ did not ascibe to anything of this world. His kingdom was not of this world. So as a true Christian we don't put are hope or faith in anything this world promises. Which leads to another understanding we know.
Worship of the beast. We understand that Satan during the time of the end will mislead people by getting them to put the hope and faith in this system. When this world goes to pot in the tribulation people will put there hope in man to fix things. They will give there worship to the wild beast in order to save there lives. Those of us who know the truth about what is going on at the time will not bow down, like the three hebrews of old.
These are some things we know will happen and we know how we should deal with it. Christ said those who seek to save their soul will lose it but those who are willing to lose it will get life.
You can name more that are clear to us.
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Eden
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 195
Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 16:23Hi Shai!
IMO, there is no question over the following truths:
Jehovah is God Almighty He is love He is righteous Jesus is His son Jesus is the exact representation of Jehovah He is truth He is the way, the only way to the father He is life and light His blood saved the world from sin and death He is the rock mass His death and resurection is the foundation of our faith
I am not trying to be picky (sorry), but when you mentioned being seperate from the world, several questions came to mind. There seems to be two different types of world mentioned by Jesus; a good one and a bad one. One that his kingdom is no part of, and one that he died for. My point is, I am not sure the WT version of 'worldlies' is Jesus' version. So it can't go in my list of 'definite truths'.
But I agree with your second point about the 666 kingdom. Personally, I feel it is very important to make clear that although God's Kingdom WILL cure the world, Satan's kingdom has a go first - and it will have powerful signs and potents, complete with false prophets to mislead, if possible, the chosen ones. This is another worisome teaching of the WT, anouncing Jehovah's kingdom as the NEXT kingdom. If they are proclaiming the NEXT kingdom's coming, they are not proclaiming Jehovah's.
So another one for my list:
God's kingdom will bless the world, but only after Satan's kingdom does.
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Epignossis
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Posts: 151
Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 17:09Shaihulud wrote: My whole goal is to worship with spirit and truth and be with my God Jehovah and my Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Hi Shai, I am so very glad that is where you are at. For me it says everything about where we need to go. Aaron put up a very nice post in the Love thread about coming to the One. Both Jehovah and Jesus are united. And indeed we are invited to be union with them.
And I think that is why people get upset over worship of idols and organisational entities - because it detracts from the true spiritual organisation - that of the body of the Christ. I guess that is why he says - "I am the way and the truth..." that is what we have to get at and to. Those words of Jesus in John 14 are truly powerful this way.
Very much spirit my brother.
ePig Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3
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donbodo
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 125
Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 17:38Shai,
I agree that we need to keep separate from the world, but I share Eden's reservations. Paul said we are not completely removed from the world, so there are some aspects of it that are okay to be involved in and others that are not. So then we get down to speculation about what is okay and what isn't. The WT outlines it all for us in detail, but how is it arriving at its conclusions?
As far as the beast goes, well there we have to be careful too. What is the beast? Does the Bible explicitly say? No. So it's a matter of trying to figure it out, and there are hundreds of interpretations. But you are right that we should bow before nothing and no one other than Jehovah.
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Aaron
User Senior Boarder
Posts: 13
Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 18:28Greetings my friends,
May you all have peace.
There seems to be two different types of world mentioned by Jesus; a good one and a bad one. One that his kingdom is no part of, and one that he died for.
If I may share this with you, they are in truth.. the SAME world. The very world that our Lord said 'My kingdom is not of this world' is the same world that our Lord died for.
For although the world lies in the authority of the wicked one (and thus, are his 'enemies'), these very ones our Lord loved (for he too, loved his 'enemies'). For God so loved the world (the same 'world' that hated him) that he gave his only-begotten Son so that ANYONE in the world who puts faith in him... may not perish, but have everlasting life. The world indeed was wicked and they have made themselves enemies of our God. Yet God loves them for he loves... even his enemies. And so when he sent forth his Son into the world.. knowing the wickedness of the world.. he did not send his Son to 'judge' the world, but that the world might be saved THROUGH him. For God LOVED the world and although the world hated him, he desired to make reconciliation with the world that "they" may have life by means of his Son. For in the adversary, the world was perishing. But, by means of his Son if they would believe in him.. they would have life.. and have it ABUNDANTLY.
And so God loved the world so much that he sent forth his Son. And his Son also loved the world and he knew the world, and he knew the world would hate him also. Yet, he too loved the world and he loved the world so much, that he was willing to surrender his soul in behalf of the world. He loved the world (his enemies) so much, that he gave his life in their behalf. And when he came in among them in the likeness of the sons of men, he submitted himself TO men.. and became.. a 'servant.' He did many good things to the sons of men, cured their sickenesses, healed their infirmites and took them into his own body, ministered to the poor ones and gave to the hungry ones. Sent away the crushed ones free and comforted all the mourning ones and even brought back from the physically dead those whom they loved. Yet when they betrayed him into the hands of sinners and was found guilty on the basis of a LIE.. he, after he died FORGAVE them of all their trespasses. He begged the Father that their sin may not be held against them and after he died he used his blood to fogive the sins of many and call those who belonged to him.
They were in the world and as ones part of the world they too were lying in the authority of the wicked one. Yet, when they came to the Son and was putting faith in him and receiving LIFE from him... the holy spirit (John 7:37-39; John 20:21-23), they were coming OUT OF the world and became 'not of the world.' And these ones who came out of the world remained IN the world to minister to those also in the world who also want to come out of the world just as they had come out of the world. The world hated him and hated those who came to him, but he continued to love them and to forgive them and to call to them that they too may come out of the world. The Christ loved the world. He loved his enemies, and he loved them to the very end. And those whom he sends forth with his spirit have 'his' love in them.. and if they wish to.. they too can "become love" and in him they too can love the world. The kingdom is no part of this world and anyone of this world who wants to 'come out' and inherit the kingdom.. may do so.. by means of the Christ.
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amosfamily
User Expert Boarder
Posts: 25
Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 19:37Well put Aaron, I agree with your reasoning.
Shaihulud. Anyone that accuses you of idolatry, is simply showing how deeply they have been affected by the Society's judgemental attitude. I even find myself having to fight the tendency to pass judgement based on fleshly standards. May we all receive spirit so that we might "carry out no fleshly desire at all."
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