Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/17 20:21amosfamily wrote: Shaihulud. Anyone that accuses you of idolatry, is simply showing how deeply they have been affected by the Society's judgemental attitude. I even find myself having to fight the tendency to pass judgement based on fleshly standards. May we all receive spirit so that we might "carry out no fleshly desire at all."
Wow Afamily well said
ePigKnowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know it just as he ought to know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him - 1 Cor 8:1-3
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Phi
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Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/18 03:13Hi Aaron. Great post. So, with that understanding that these worlds are the same, would I be right in saying that if we had the same attitude as God and his Son we would remain "without spot" from the world while at the same time loving it intensely, as they did, Jesus even dying on it's behalf? Would we need to be separate from the world as in being isolated from it, as the Pharisees were, considering ourselves to be made 'unclean' even by contact with those not of our own group? Or would we rather remain spiritually separate by simply not adopting the spiritual standards of people of the world, while stil loving them and living and operating among them?
If that is so, then our being no part of the world and without spot from it would not be achieved by despising the world and looking down on it's inhabitants and so attempting, if possible, to reduce contact with them merely to the point of preaching to the anonymous figures that appear in a doorframe when we go door to door. In that case we are not "unspotted" at all, because such an attitude is in itself 'worldly', 'fleshly'. (Luke 18:9-14)
One of the verses that was quoted in the first post here as indicating things that are clear in the Bible -- James 1:27 - contains two elements that indicate pure worship, remaining unspotted by the world and "to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation". I feel that while members of many Christian religions may not remain as 'unspotted' from the world as JW's do (some do remain as unspotted however, and some more so), they often do an infinitey better job of loving people and of extending charity to them and especially to the needy. We can't presume to extract the splinter from their eye until we have dealt with our own rafter, nor judge them, because that is not the task assigned to us. We have been assigned to love.
There are things which are perfectly clear in the Bible. Many things are not. A great deal of our 'truth' is really only our own interpretation, that is, a leaning upon our 'own understanding' - or the 'understanding' of other men - our judgement. Which is why 'doctrine' has become far less important to me in recent times. The most important and far reaching truth contained in the Bible, IMHO, is "God is love". Everything else flows from that.
Much Philia.
Phi.
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/18 03:56
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/18 03:58
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Shaihulud
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Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/18 04:19Well Like Eden said there are two wolrds presented in the Bible. One Jesus gave his life forwhich is literally the whole world and two the world that is under Satan's influence. The latter is the one we need to avoid and which Christ Kingdom has no part of. We can not have love for the world (it's spirit that is predominate in it) which is against God. Thats why James said if you love the world your an enemy of God. God's spirit and the worlds spirit which is controlled by Satan are at enmity.
So real it is easy to define. Jesus loved the people in the world so he gave his life but if they do not have faith in that sacrifice then it is of no value. If people do not have faith or "take no note" then they are part of the world deceived by Satan.
I do not think the WT version of "who are part of the world" is kosher. They are too judgemental. I think the warnings they give as far as getting into worldly thinking are good but they themselves do not obey that warning. Example: It is wrong for me to work out at the YMCA ( even if it is just to use the facilities) but it is ok for them to go ahead and ASSOCIATE themsleves with the UN, a Satanitc wild beast of which they for years have prophesied about, and then LIE about the real reasons for doing so. According to them though even if they did join just to use the librabry it is wrong and hypocritcal according to what they wrote about the YMCA.
So I think there advice is good but there actions are not. It is like Christ said do what they tell you to do but according to their actions do not do. So not voting, not saluting the flag, not getting involved with politics, etc... is good advice but they do not keep it.
Ok I done ranting
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Phi
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Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/18 04:41Yeah, I agree Shai, its the spirit of the world we need to avoid. While at the same time our love can be expansive to the people, as Jesus love was, tax collectors, harlots, sinners of all sorts, Samaritans...the lot! LOLOL.
If people do not have faith or "take no note" then they are part of the world deceived by Satan.
Yes, though 'its not over til the fat lady sings' (or an angel blows his trumpet...or something...whatever ) The judging is future. They have time yet. We'll love them all until then. And who knows?
Philia.
Phi.
Post edited by: Phi, at: 2005/03/18 04:43
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Shaihulud
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Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/18 04:47yes we do. It is funny how the society even changed their teaching on the sheep and the goats but still act according to the old understanding!
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Aaron
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Re:Get to the truth. - 2005/03/18 11:15Greetings Phi and others,
May you all have peace.
Dearest Phi and others, the best way I can describe how 'we' can be no part of the world is by means of a parable.
Consider that you are a father of many children. Now you love these children very much. In fact, you love them so much that you WOULD give your life in their behalf. Your children were very important to you and you 'treasured' them deeply. Now, being the loving father that you are, you take every precaution necessary to protect your children without infringing upon their free will. So perhaps, you 'see' something inside your children that could be potentially harmful to them. What do you do? Do you warn them? Of course you would, for you love them and want what is best for them. Yet, would you warn your children if you knew that warning them could cause them to despise you? If you really love your children for their own good and not for how they make "you feel," you would, would you not? And so you do tell them. Now many of your children are not pleased with your words of warning and they decide in themselves to harm themselves anyway. Now if you stand in their way and force them to do what "you" want them to do.. all the time.. will they not in turn grow to resent you? Indeed they would. For if you always force them to do what YOU want instead of what they choose they want for themselves.. then how can they ever make their own decision? How can "they" ever be free? And so because you LOVE them for them and want them to do what is best for them.. although they are bringing harm to themselves you choose to 'respect' their decision and allow them to do what they wish. Yet, although they are "sinning" against themselves.. you still LOVE them. So you let them know that you still love them and although they are sinning, you tell them that they can still come to you and to not fear coming to you if they wish to. And so some do come. What do you do? Do you judge them for what they have done and cast them out? No, you do not. For you LOVE your children and your heart REJOICES that they are coming to you. So then, what DO you do? You would, no doubt, slaughter the fattest bull, welcome your children home, give them the BEST of your clothes, wash them clean with water, and take the best of care of them.
Now, does such love make the father 'of the world?' No, it does not. Now if a father continues to associate and speak to his children although they are sinning and hurting themselves in the world, is he by his actions and his love for his children becoming 'of the world?' No, again he is not. Does such a father go and preach judgment against his children to get them to come 'home?' No, again he does not. For he LOVES his children and although his children are of the world by reason of the fact that they are doing harm to themselves, he will still love them and not cut them off but ask of them not to continue to harm themselves that they may not continue to grieve and weep. Yet, if they choose to continue to harm themselves.. you will still love them and if they ask of you to.. help them eat, give them drink, give them clothing, or forgive their sins.. because of YOUR love.. for them... you would WANT to do it and ALWAYS do it.
This is the love that we should have or at least 'aspire' to have for the world. This love for the world actually cares ABOUT the world and continues to love those in the world. It does not go door to door preaching destruction to the world. Neither does it look down in ANY way upon those in the world. For this love for the world actually cares 'for' the world and seeks to do what is best for the world.. even at cost to itself. This love WOULD surreder its own life in behalf of the world. It does not judge the world and it does not consider itself better than the world. It loves the world and manifests such love in the world by calling to it, not judging it, forgiving it, and even begging in BEHALF of it. These things and others it does for the world and by doing such.. it is NO PART OF THE WORLD but actually cares FOR the world. It LOVES the world and cares for the world and it desires the world to care and love one another even as it has loved it. This 'love' can only be manifested if it is in the 'heart' and one cannot 'pretend' to have this love. For if one 'pretends' to have this love.. then in time their heart will eventually grow tired and reveal that it does not have such love and many will be stumbled by it. It will only be 'a matter of time.' So if ones desire to acquire such love, they must work at it, give things up, and ask of the Master and he will give out of the good treasure of his heart. And by means of him ones can obtain this 'love.'
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