Re:Will There Be Anything Left? - 2005/03/26 12:05donbodo wrote: Pole, I get the feeling you want me to reserve the name Christian for a select few. Does that now answer your select few question?Your Peace, Surrender, In You, YHVH Re-connect Co-operative
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donbodo
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Re:Will There Be Anything Left? - 2005/03/26 14:01I asked not if baptism had something to do with becoming a Christian, I asked what it had to do with becoming a Christian.
Okay, I seem to have been unclear about something. I said I would not feel comfortable baptizing someone who was pro-war because I didn't think they understood what Christianity was all about. On the other hand, I also said that if someone else baptized him, I would accept him as a brother. I never said that someone who was pro-war was not a Christian. I said only that they didn't understand an important aspect of Christianity. There's a difference, because I do not believe one has to understand all the aspects of Christianity to be a Christian. Why? Because Christianity is a journey. One starts out ignorant and continues to work on himself through his life. He tried to live by the words of Jesus. He may not understand Jesus all the time, but as he grows his understanding increases. He never really becomes a "true" Christian. There really is no such thing (just as there is no such thing as a perfect human). But he gets closer and closer. Some Christians today are further along in their journey than others.
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Bea
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Re:Will There Be Anything Left? - 2005/03/26 15:14polemotheos wrote: donbodo wrote: All too true. But, I wonder, when exactly does a person become a Christian? Does it really have anything to do with baptism?"
Baptism does have something to do with being a Christain.<br><br>Post edited by: polemotheos, at: 2005/03/26 11:57
Here's a nice webpage on baptism. http://www.commontruth.com/Baptisms.html I won't make any comments, 'cause then you'd know I plagerized! Uh-oh - you're not reading this are you Tami? LOL!
quotes from donbodo:
may not understand Jesus all the time, but as he grows his understanding increases. This is true, otherwise it is conformity to a new set of laws, when THE law - LOVE - should be written on our hearts by Jah Himself. God Himself makes it grow. Persons new to Christianity are drawn by God, the only way for a person to learn love and display love. We are supposed to set an example of what a 'Christian' should act like, be like, love like.(1 John 4:19) I've always loved this quote - I don't know whose it is - "Preach Jesus Christ wherever you go, to whomever you meet. Use words if neccesary." He never really becomes a "true" Christian. There really is no such thing (just as there is no such thing as a perfect human). Can't we say there are no 'perfect Christians' because there are no 'perfect humans'? Because I do think there are true and false Christians - re: the wheat and weeds parable. Maybe that's what you meant anyway?
Quote from Polemotheos:
If you can't determine whether or not a Nazi is a Christain maybe you should get a new job But hey - here's a joyous thought: in all probablility, quite a few former Nazi's became Christians after their experiences, who knows? There is One Who knows... Are you wanting to build a new list of laws/requirements, Mars? That always seems to end up an us vs. them thing. Is that inevitable? Are you planning on being a 'baptiser'?
Just a few thoughts and questions...... ~Philia~ from Bea
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donbodo
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Re:Will There Be Anything Left? - 2005/03/26 16:12What a nice post, Bea. Thanks.
I'm not crazy about the use of the word "true Christian," because it seems to have the same connotation as "perfect." But I guess it depends on the way we are using the word "true." To me it sounds like "believes everything right and does everything right." Pole may be using it differently, though. Maybe by "true" he means "acceptable to God." In that case, yes there are true Christians, but then we have to get into a discussion about what makes them acceptable and what doesn't--a conversation Jesus told us to avoid (Matthew 7:1-5).
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Warrior
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Re:Will There Be Anything Left? - 2005/03/26 19:04Youy're a christian if you're a disciple of Christ.
Therefore, you have to have met him. Had a personal encounter with him.
You're a christian if you've been born again of the spirit and are moving with God.
Anyone can call themselves a Christian, we can't stop them. Having a list of regulations to follow or standards to reach is pointless. We need to stop judging by the sight of our eyes or the hearing of our ears and blow the dust off that useful tool called spiritual discernment.
It's an internal renewal, rightly described as being born again, when the old is done with and the new begins.
Many Christians are still attached to their old habits and addictions. Sometimes these things are not easy to escape and sometimes they take time. Hence we can't label people "true Christian" or otherwise by what we see.
I know a wonderful woman who is being changed by God daily but still has many problems in her life. On the outside few would recognise her as a "Christian" and yet God is more at work in her life than in many who seem good, clean, kind people on the outside. When I am ministering to her, I am sometimes overewhelmed by the strength of love, affection and approval God has for her. He sees her heart, which is beautiful, not the outward problems that have grown up from external troubles.
Jesus exposed the religious leaders' hypocrisies in a few words. These men seemed so rightious and law-abiding on the outside. No-one could fault their keeping of the Torah. But Jesus knew their hearts and their motivations.
When we meet him today he'll still expose the hypocrsy and motivations of our hearts - and it's horrible! But it's liberating because it allows repentence, it allows us to get on our faces before God and marvel as his spirit changes us, horrible though we are.
The WT has labeled the entire "church" as being satanic. The Church has labeled the WT similarly.
Thankfully, neither of these labels are from God, only men. So I feel free to ignore them.
As I've said before, God just labels us his children when we accept his son and the holy spirit re-creates us anew on the inside.
Much shalom this shabbat.
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polemotheos
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Re:Will There Be Anything Left? - 2005/03/26 19:07(Matthew 7:1-5) 7 “Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU. 3 Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to extract the straw from your eye’; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother’s eye.
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Uh-oh - you're not reading this are you Tami? 
LOL!
That always seems to end up an us vs. them thing. 
Is that inevitable? 
~Philia~ from Bea